EQN Article: Trinity Discussion

[Oxillion]

Hail Everyone!!!

Oh, this is a real nasty topic.

http://www.eqhammer.com/column/underfoot-trinity-discussion

After the GW2 dynamics and the overall gameplay of GW2 I am concerned on how this may get deployed.  GW2 was a complete flop.  I am not saying this a wrong direction but is some serious flaws.  I think it created a generic play styles and major problems in dungeons.  I guess I am old school about having class specific duties. 

 

Anyway, let me know what you all think.

 

Mo

[Mystarra]

They keep saying it won't be like GW2 because the mobs will be smarter, but I still see it as every man for himself.  But I guess we'll see it how works out.  I still like the class roles, but I know why everyone keeps wanting to move away from it.  Too many want to be dps and fewer want the other support classes.  Some games are going the route of multiple specs to help that, but then it seems the classes lose their flavor and feel a bit sterile.  And usually that ends up happening because there is pvp in the game and the class gets "balanced".

 

[Oxillion]

I am trying to keep an open mind on this but after the GW2 madness I am very squeamish on this subject.  I like the class specifics because it forces people to actually take the time to learn the class.  WOW, LotRO, EQ1/2 and Vanguard all had this in mind.  Now we are awash with the mindset of the casual payer that does not care or is not invested in the game.  That crates a major amounts of problems for the community at large. 

I think your right patience and see how this develops on this front.  Just say NO to GW2 style of class game play. 

 

Mo

[Oxillion]

Just read this article so it may help with others on this and helped me gt a better picture of what might be deployed.

http://eqnexus.com/2013/12/trinity-ai-eqnext-lost-faith-trinity/

 

We can only hope...

[Kalissandra]

Oxillion wrote:

Just read this article so it may help with others on this and helped me gt a better picture of what might be deployed. http://eqnexus.com/2013/12/trinity-ai-eqnext-lost-faith-trinity/   We can only hope...

Thing is, the stuff he talks about later in the article is still the "Trinity" but a different way of going about it.  Tanks using guard etc. still has the Tank class, it's just semantics.  I'm fine with changing the way the trinity works with things like reactive heals or damage redirection, but the removal of tanks and healers like GW2 did doesn't appeal to me. 

[Oxillion]

chiming in on this again.   This is a very nasty subject it turns out on some of the forums.  I think the loss of the class aspects of roles is a hard one for people to get over.    Part of me is thinking with smarter mobs this might work out better than expected.  The GW2 version was still based on mobs that would not change up tactics or in some cases that come to mind the random attack of members was kind of silly.  The dungeons were nothing short of a train wreck and a major disapointment.   I think the folks at SOE are trying to change up the battle a bit.  The mechanics I have read about that came from two sources now (EQnexus and EQHammer) are suggesting this will work and it will improve combat.  The old tank and spank needed to go really.   I think the changes will be good so we actually have to know our toons what they can and can't do.   Far more dynamic and fluid situations will occur.  Yes, I still have visions of GW2 chaos and repeated wipes and many nasty experiences with my guild and pugs.  Way to many to be honest.   

Have to continue this on my laptop.  My IFAD is dying.   Grrrrrrr

 

mo

 

[Oxillion]

Now to continue....

 

Ok as I was saying the dynamics should be a better engagement for everyone.   I am trying to see the other side of the coin here.  I loved the Trinity but this might be better or at least in a different form:  Good article on this http://www.eqnextfans.com/articles/25338-trinity-how-class-roles-work-with-multiclassing 

We still don't have enough information on how this will all work or at least in the concept of how SOE is going to deploy it.   I think It will better in the long run as people learn to play in more dynamic events.   The GW2 concept failed miserably but lets hope SOE took notes on what not to do.

 

Let me know what you think...

 

Mo

[Arventas]

"The limits on this include an eight button system: four from the class you’re currently playing, using your current weapon as a basis for those abilities, and four more from specific class abilities through the current 40 class system."

This screams GW2 to me, however.

"The Trinity will still be there for those who want to dedicate themselves to a specific style of play, and for those players that want to be a Jack-Of-All-Trades, they’ll be able to mix and match abilities to their heart’s content!"

I forsee that dungeon and raids will be handled with a trinity set up, (ex: progressive guilds will push their members to build certain ways.) Where as open world questing and exploration will be the, jack of all trades/solo player builds, simialr to how GW2 is. There will probably be a mixture of the two in the more progressed players base eventually.

Over all I just see the talents being a lure, like acheivements to keep players working on a checklist of must haves.

[Oxillion]

I am wondering if the complexity of the trades or skills will  be more in depth and more usable than GW2?

"The Trinity will still be there for those who want to dedicate themselves to a specific style of play, and for those players that want to be a Jack-Of-All-Trades, they’ll be able to mix and match abilities to their heart’s content!"

 

Total GW@ feel to it I agree.  I think that the dynamics were not that good in the GW2 world.   Healing was awful when it cam to self healing and the healers(well so called anyway) were very weak if the situation got out of control.  There were different types of combat healing and the Pally was a great example of using off skills to do that with the Altruistic Healing with Boons.   Was it perfect no and I quiet often got into trouble fast when others in the group were not able to support me.  I think you are correct if this type of dynamic is used raiding guilds will go after the spec'd aspects to get through content as fast as they can.  I can remember two dungeon events in GW2 that we(my group) was not fast enough for the turds leading the group.   Within that week we started to see group requests based on skill setup and you had to have gone through the dungeon.  I don't think I can ever remember anything like that in EQ or in EQ2.   WoW we had the dreaded gear score nonsense but it drove the game.     

FRom what I have been reading there will be more info on the actual combat and how this new system is going to work.  Maybe someone will get a solid look and or some game time to get a better picture of what we are looking at.

Lots to speculate on but that is half the fun until beta rolls around. 

 

Mo 

[Kalissandra]

Sounds like they're going for a Rift-style setup.  Trinity still exists, but you're not locked into a specific Trinity role.  That's the way I like things, flexibility to fill in where required.

[Oxillion]

I did not play Rift and was not up for the PvP thing after WoW.  I think if you have a solid group running around to help back you up then it is a little more fun.   I like the team aspects for sure but been ganked so many time in other games said I need to step away from the keyboard

 

Well, after reading a few more articles on what people are getting out of the Dev's its looking interesting for sure.   I posted another article on this and gives a better perspective on the subject. 

 

Mo

[Notja]

I've been reading a long forum post on MMORPG about this today. It's a pretty hot topic. I think I'm just going to plan on picking a class and sticking with it and not buying into the whole jack of all trades thing... what about you guys? Are you planning on sticking to one class or are you guys going to hunt and unlock all 40 and mix and match what you want?

[Paetryn]

That will be a decision I will make when I start to play.  It might be worth it or might not, I will have to wait and see.